Breaking Extensions so much

[Nylanfs]

edit: But yes, I should be more careful to not imply everyone is in the same group, regardless of the topic.

Except those people who like pineapple on pizza, we are always awesome.

I've always found that the average person doesn't have a firm grasp on copyright, IP law, and licensing. Granted I am a bit biased having handled PCGen's PR and licensing for about 16ish years.

[Mike Serfass]

FYI, Abandoned extensions can not just be given to some other developer to take over. SmiteWorks has to follow Intellectual Property laws. And most community devs do not specify a license for their extensions. Therefore, the law says they retain all rights to the code. Therefore it would be illegal for someone to take over the code.

I've tried before to get the community devs to just post their licenses. With the hope that many could/would use something like one of the MIT or CC licenses that would allow collaboration. But I got zero takers. And to my knowledge, Rob2E is the only one who planned the handoff of his work. Simple put, most community devs don't care enough about what happens when/if they leave the community to spend any time or effort accommodating it.

Like SilentRuin, I add licenses to my extensions, and I distribute them unencrypted and invite others to look at my code.
I added licenses after I read your referenced post about licenses. I hadn't thought about that previously, as I'm sure most devs don't, and probably people who aren't devs by trade have no idea how IP works. So thanks for that post.
I use the GNU GPL, which will let someone take over if I vaporize.
If I ever plan on leaving FG, I will look for someone to take over. And I'd contact SmiteWorks to tell them they're free to transition my extensions to someone else.
Not everyone does that, unfortunately. I've looked at various extension code bases, and I rarely see a license.

Maybe we could have a forum where extension devs could post their desire for the fate of their extensions if they become orphaned.
Maybe SmiteWorks could have an extension developer agreement that covers this. And require some kind of license be attached to extensions to cover orphans.
We could come up with something to help prevent extension limbo.

[SilentRuin]

You know all this negative feeling I have and others have probably needs a reminder that extensions while no easy feat to maintain, still give power that FGU will likely never provide for us. I was testing the latest FGU drop with BCEG and AURA extension (and all the other ones I use) to insure they work with the more complex things I do with my players. They are currently working.

Which can give you some pretty cool results IMHO. I tell nothing about how to do what I'm doing in this video but show a complex but simple test case (copy of live game moment) I use to test out that a number of interwoven extensions are still playing nice together doing what I want them to do. This, unfortunately, is a necessary step any extension provider should probably do after an FGU drop and the extensions they play with are "fixed", "neutered", or "spayed" (whatever term you feel best suits the situation) after FGU drops from TEST to LIVE. I actually wish FGU would take fixed campaigns with extensions loaded up to run set piece tests so that they could see if they are about to kill our stuff and come up with some idea for us what to expect and what has changed (documentation).

Do I expect this to ever happen? Not really. But it would be cool if it did. Here is my test I run to try to kick BCEG and AURA and the other extensions I use right in the you know wheres. If they are still standing afterwards - success...

[Laerun]

You know all this negative feeling I have and others have probably needs a reminder that extensions while no easy feat to maintain, still give power that FGU will likely never provide for us. I was testing the latest FGU drop with BCEG and AURA extension (and all the other ones I use) to insure they work with the more complex things I do with my players. They are currently working.

Which can give you some pretty cool results IMHO. I tell nothing about how to do what I'm doing in this video but show a complex but simple test case (copy of live game moment) I use to test out that a number of interwoven extensions are still playing nice together doing what I want them to do. This, unfortunately, is a necessary step any extension provider should probably do after an FGU drop and the extensions they play with are "fixed", "neutered", or "spayed" (whatever term you feel best suits the situation) after FGU drops from TEST to LIVE. I actually wish FGU would take fixed campaigns with extensions loaded up to run set piece tests so that they could see if they are about to kill our stuff and come up with some idea for us what to expect and what has changed (documentation).

Do I expect this to ever happen? Not really. But it would be cool if it did. Here is my test I run to try to kick BCEG and AURA and the other extensions I use right in the you know wheres. If they are still standing afterwards - success...

That's nice that you provide use cases at least.

[eporrini]

I now have almost all of my extensions fixed or at least not causing errors. THANK YOU to all developers that support these extensions, it's a huge effort that is greatly appreciated. In this round I've lost Local Dice Tower (no longer supported), which I consider another of the foundational capabilities that should just be part of the game. I guess I am going into a hibernation mode. I've asked all of my players to no longer run updates, and I've also decided to freeze future updates until further notice. I am disappointed. I hate the thought of not having new features or even fixes available to me as part of the update process. I also think foundationally the model is broken for Forge. As developers add new features to their extensions (or new extensions) with Forge being the distribution center and update point, I have no idea how I would add anything without clicking the FGU update button to pull it down. If I buy a new module, either campaign or book, how do I load it without the update button? As many of the devs have pointed out, some new system will have to be put in place, our extension devs are burning out of moving off. PLEASE consider a process review and rework of code updates and a better system for how to minimize impact to both extension developers and the customers downstream. It may feel like I am not supportive of SW or their development team. I am. I've been using and investing in this platform for years. As part of any business, it's critical to listen to the customer base and adapt/change to continue the growth of the product. Looking forward to my next campaign session on Monday.

[Tooting Dog]

I am with you on the local dice tower. I play on a laptop, and I enjoy being able to play in the evening in bed which I cannot do with a PC. The dice tower is cute and all, however, every bit of screen real estate is precious and if any function can be clickable instead of taking up screen space, I am all for that. Thanks for the work on your extensions!

[Vass_Dts]

If your DM is using Requested Rolls extension, they can send you Tower request rolls, so you don’t have to fiddle around for the tower. It’s not a perfect solution to your problem, but it can get the job done if the DM wishes to have that in their workflow.

Speaking strictly personally here, one reason I don’t even have the tower icon visible is because all checks are made by me sending them to players, rather than have them fiddle around their character sheet tabs. And I can toggle a tower lock from there.

But, quite frankly, I also rarely use tower rolls.

[Tooting Dog]

In a thread about how often extensions break, you suggest an extension? ;-)

[Vass_Dts]

Of course I do. The point of this whole discussion is not to stop using extensions, but to explain why it is imperative that conditions improve so that extensions don’t break like every two weeks.

[MartianXi]

So, what extensions has this week's update broken? Dare I update?