Breaking Extensions so much

[MartianXi]

Updates shouldn't need to be treated as you suggest... if it ain't broke don't fix it.... there wouldn't be an update if there wasn't some reason to do so. There's an update every week and after many years of cell phone use it becomes second nature to stay updated.

I tend to update because there are often bug fixes involved and maybe it is just a force of habit, but not updating runs the risk of getting so outdated that a single update changes everything so drastically that I have to re-learn an entire program.

I'm not a programmer by any means and have only a basic idea of what's happening behind the scenes but if the updates were setup in different packages with separate bug fix patches and UI/feature updates as optional I think it would make a big difference to the user experience.

This was an expensive program with the original ultimate license pricing and as much as I appreciate it's continued growth I just want a stable platform to work with that doesn't require a bunch of troubleshooting every weekend.

[Trenloe]

...I just want a stable platform to work with that doesn't require a bunch of troubleshooting every weekend.

I'm sorry to labor the point already stated, but the majority (not all, but a large majority) of issues are caused by extensions. You'll need to make a judgement call on how many extensions you feel you *have* to run vs the more you run the more likely you're going to have issues.

[MartianXi]

I'm sorry to labor the point already stated, but the majority (not all, but a large majority) of issues are caused by extensions. You'll need to make a judgement call on how many extensions you feel you *have* to run vs the more you run the more likely you're going to have issues.

True they are caused by extensions, of which I only use three but those three are fairly fundamental in our game.

[Morenu]

Updates shouldn't need to be treated as you suggest... if it ain't broke don't fix it.... there wouldn't be an update if there wasn't some reason to do so. There's an update every week and after many years of cell phone use it becomes second nature to stay updated.

Resist the shiny red box. I always Read the update. We currently play PFrpg, so if there is nothing for PF or CoreRPG that we need, I do not update. I prefer our working extensions. To me as a long time computer user, Other than MAYBE security updates, Don't do OS or Software updates when they first come out. let some other person find the errors. You mentioned Phones... you seriously update immediately when they release a major update? no thanks, I like making and receiving calls.

I tend to update because there are often bug fixes involved and maybe it is just a force of habit, but not updating runs the risk of getting so outdated that a single update changes everything so drastically that I have to re-learn an entire program.

I am not saying DON'T update ever (although that is an option I suppose if everything is 100% working), I am saying to let others find the glaring issues if this type of thing is going to upset you. We KNOW that major FGU changes almost always makes a few of the 30+ extensions we use break. You have an answer, you just do not like the answer.

I'm not a programmer by any means and have only a basic idea of what's happening behind the scenes but if the updates were setup in different packages with separate bug fix patches and UI/feature updates as optional I think it would make a big difference to the user experience.

Now this Idea I like. Hot fixes, spelling mistakes, broken links... anything that has almost no chance of breaking things should be 1 type of update (maybe anything that is not a ruleset?). Then have a Forge only update and then have a ruleset update with a warning "this could break extensions". This would go a LONG way towards helping the issue.

This was an expensive program with the original ultimate license pricing and as much as I appreciate it's continued growth I just want a stable platform to work with that doesn't require a bunch of troubleshooting every weekend.

I paid $100 and have gotten SO MUCH more for my money. No Monthly fee. No yearly upgrade cost... Players can play for free, so $100 allows say 4 people to enjoy playing for as long as SW is around. I absolutely disagree with the expensive program statement. ALSO if you are a 5E player, this is more WotC's problem then it is SW

Obviously we all have our own opinions and experiences. I prefer constructive communication of issues and asking about possible solutions and tend to see a better response from that technique.

I am taking that update suggestion to the Voting for improvement page

[Tooting Dog]

And if SW didn't allow third parties to create extensions, there would be a lot of whining going on, too. They cannot win on this one. Be happy that extensions are allowed and be sure to heed the disclaimer on many extensions that they may conflict, or break, etc. Tabletop play does not use extensions, and you do not need them in this VTT; though I feel they certainly increase enjoyment.

[houseofdexter]

5) Is it a cop out to say don’t update for at least one week if you use extensions and then do your research? No. You are using essentially beta level add-ons from an outside contractor and Expecting everything to work. Would it be nice? Yes. But the honest question is why are you updating? Was something broken that needed fixed? 95% of the time no.

Part of the problem now is that you can't get updates to extensions that are part of Forge without also getting updates to FGU...and don't get me started on being able to tell what extension you are even adding...The Loader needs lots of work...it gives you next to NO INFORMATION about the extension that you loading.

[MartianXi]

And if SW didn't allow third parties to create extensions, there would be a lot of whining going on, too. They cannot win on this one. Be happy that extensions are allowed and be sure to heed the disclaimer on many extensions that they may conflict, or break, etc. Tabletop play does not use extensions, and you do not need them in this VTT; though I feel they certainly increase enjoyment.

The fact that SW has the Forge and that it is included in updates makes it part of the software. I could understand if I was getting third party stuff off a random site but this stuff is sanctioned by SW and is automated within their update loader.

It seems like many extension creators are getting burnt out with always having to "fix" their work and lots of good extensions aren't getting updated anymore.

[Laerun]

The push back I received from my players about not updating is that at least one was also a GM, and the players purchased the new dice packs. No updates=less sales or purchases, so it's a tough sell.

[houseofdexter]

The fact that SW has the Forge and that it is included in updates makes it part of the software. I could understand if I was getting third party stuff off a random site but this stuff is sanctioned by SW and is automated within their update loader.

It seems like many extension creators are getting burnt out with always having to "fix" their work and lots of good extensions aren't getting updated anymore.

It does seem like they are breaking extensions way more than they use to do...

[Jiminimonka]

1) Does the game work the way it was intended with no extensions loaded? Yes, with extremely few exceptions.
2) Are extensions play at your own risk? Yes. With zero exceptions.
3) Does smite works Give some sort of aid to developers prior to releasing updates? Yes, but from what I hear there could be better ways or more helpful ways they could implement this.
4) Should smite works implement highly used extensions After talking to their developer? This gets a bit more hairy and has been answered in other posts. They have done it, I believe they are doing it currently with Auras. My personal belief is that any reasonably simple quality of life items that have high use should definitely be implemented.
5) Is it a cop out to say don’t update for at least one week if you use extensions and then do your research? No. You are using essentially beta level add-ons from an outside contractor and Expecting everything to work. Would it be nice? Yes. But the honest question is why are you updating? Was something broken that needed fixed? 95% of the time no.

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. I understand sometimes it’s unavoidable, but again I have played with 30 to 50 active extensions over the last four years in 3 rulesets. I have had an update stop us from gaming one or two times. And one of those times was player error because they updated without DM permission.

I literally have multiple thousands of dollars invested in fantasy grounds and have very few complaints when judging the size of the company and minimum cost required to play. If you’re playing with extensions, stop updating Willy Nilly, Or at Least stop complaining about it. You’re upset because you don’t like the instructions in the manual, which is basically don’t update before session and especially don’t update if you’ve got extensions and don’t need to.

Well said.