Is there a good thread to read to better understand automation in SaWo?

[Varsuuk]

I wanted to know which situations I needed to add modifiers or effects or whatever. Like, if someone has cover, I get that automation won't see that. I like that it handles range for me - Does it handle edges that affect that like Marksman? I didn't see a [...] effect thing so prob not right?

Any good thread here or elsewhere to read for fast primer before my first run?

[zarlor]

Other than some of the pinned ones or checking the Wiki I think the only advice is in part one you've found, which is to generally assume if something does have that [...] thing, or it's otherwise something situational (not a bonus/negative effect that should either always apply or only apply on an outgoing or incoming attack) then it's likely not automated. Looking at the Effects list and the Modifiers list should also give you some ideas there as well. I usually have Effects pulled up all the time to easily drag-and-drop effects onto CT and my players usually hot-bar any ones they use all the time (like Wild Attack).

There is a lot of automation in the background, though, like it properly handling Gang-Up bonuses, something my players were convinced was not working until we re-read the SWADE rules to find that, sure enough, it was doing it exactly right the whole time. Otherwise it doesn't hurt to verify in chat all the bonuses and penalties being applied to things to verify. At least with SWADE most things are all about just +1 or +2 to a roll so it's easy to fix something missed on the fly.

Judicious use of sub-attacks is definitely a thing, though. Have players (and even NPCs when you know beforehand they have some particular situational tactics they will like to use) set-up sub-attacks for those kinds of things. Marksman, for example, is definitely situational and not one you can easily automate, so they can create sub-Attacks with the +1 or +2 (the latter negating the 2 points of penalties, for example) attacks. Sub attacks include the name of the weapon being used already so just name the sub-attacks with what they are for. For example in a Fantasy game the Paladin might create as "Smite" sub-attack for each weapon they commonly case that Power onto, or even ask other players that the Cleric might cast that onto for their weapons, that kind of thing.

The other thing is for Players to have Effects handy that they may apply often. I find for Powers (like Boost/Lower Trait) it's useful to create a copy of the power individualized to the character and edit it so it lists all of the Effects at the bottom that they might use often. For example in Boost/Lower Trait I have a player that uses that often and usually for Vigor (which also modifies Toughness) or Fighting (which also modifies Parry), so I make sure it has effects for both of those explicitly instead of just "Boost Trait [Trait +1d]" (or +2d for the Raise version). Same for Strength since they do that one often, otherwise for the one-offs as GM I have to be sure to modify the "Trait" part to be the Trait they are modifying in CT every time. Mostly play with it and just watch the chat for the specifics and keep an eye out for anything it doesn't do. Trust me, your players will likely complain all day long about something it didn't seem to do so they're likely to catch those even if you don't (But also verify yourself because sometimes it did it right!)

Otherwise the toughest thing to watch for are Effects. The whole > or @ business and how those work along with the keyword modifiers can all be quite confusing and may not always work in situations where you think they should (same for NPCs with special abilities such as Invulnerabilities) but overall it's not necessarily something to have to delve too far into unless something crops up and there is a need, or so it seems to me, anyway.

[Arsilon]

Automation is one of the great things about FG. There is a slippery slope however. Your question on understanding even what will and won't automate is a great start. I'm not sure I've found a single video that explains all of it. The best single source is either here and/or the wiki. Then using one of several FG oriented discords to ask the community. (If you need links to any of the above, let me know).

Generally speaking automation is introduced in one of 3 ways:
1) There is a core rule that is universal. It's described within the core rules that something happens a certain way. This goes beyond the system knowing you need to roll a Wild Die if its a Wild Card making a trait roll. It also includes knowing that the Combat Reflex Edge should modify the Spirit roll for recovery from Shaken, for example. I won't say its crystal clear 100% of the time when it will and when it won't automate it...but generally speaking if its a "no matter what, this happens" its automated. There's a lot of examples of Edges in this category. Elan knows to apply+2 to rerolls, Level Headed knows to Draw additional cards, etc.

2) Automation can be introduced for situational things if the 'situation' is something that FG knows and can track. For example, FG needs to know there is a difference between a melee and ranged attack for automation per #1 above to work. As such, it has the ability to figure out whether or not something like Dodge should take effect and what to do with it. Situational things use the "Effects" system; If you open up the Dodge Edge, you'll see the [Cover +2] at the bottom which is the coding to tell FGU it needs to apply that effect accordingly. In this case, cover is automated per core rules but its also been applied situationally, eg if you have this Edge vs don't and at what magnitude. Effects allows FG to manipulate it situationally, sometimes its +2 sometimes its +4 etc.

3) Manual effects. Per #1 and #2 above you'll have effects that can be either hard coded in the automation or applied to force the automation to kick in during specific known situations that the rules specify and that FG has the means to track. Effects is how you automate most everything else and are the primary mechanism a GM has to do this while in game. Creating them, manipulating them, knowing when best to turn them on/off is an art as much as its a science. Your mileage will vary but this is where you need to figure out how you best want to run your game....some GM's spend 5 minutes trying to create on the fly or turn effects on/off in game for something that only happens once so the roll will get the +1 properly....because....well automation!!! In that case, you may have just been better off doing the math manually. It becomes very 'situational' so there is no way for any of the developers to know when they should or shouldn't put something in play. Effects is the compromise.

Obvious examples might be:
- Things that only happen once per session or per turn, eg Rabble Rouse, Connections
- Things that only happen if certain game conditions are met, eg Famous, Aristocrat

Using the above, you can draw your own line on whether you want to use or create effects depending on how frequently said situations may arise. If you have a character theme that is built around a certain thing and you know it will happen 6 times a session, you may want to consider if an effect is possible for it. If its something that may only happen once every 3 sessions, I wouldn't bother trying create an effect - you can either just type something into the combat tracker on the fly (once you're comfortable with effects) or just do the roll manually. It's not worth bogging your game down for 5 minutes to 'figure out the automation' vs you or your player just rolling and adding the modifier and moving on.

Here's a link to the Wiki page on effects (its currently being overhauled and there is a page here on the forums as well that is dedicated to this topic).

https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassia...Worlds+Effects

[Lonewolf]

Be aware of that there is a terrible condition users can suffer from - Effect-a-titis! This where they delay game play too long trying to add +1 via an effect. Instead of using a Modifier attached to tool bar or simply mouse wheel scrolling the modifer box.

It was one of dangers raised way back when automation was first being introduced in classic Fantasy Grounds and it worth remembering today now we have even more options.

[damned]

Modifiers widget is underused!

[Varsuuk]

I definitely use and explain use of widget.

I’m talking things like putting a global fear level effect that “just works” and is ever present in some cases and easy to forget plus tedious every time. In my chats here and discord many helped and now I am using that.

Yeah just trying to find the tips that let me ask better questions and contextual understanding to help me find answers on own at times. This has all be very helpful to me and hopefully others reading this thread.