Feedback Thread - D&D 5E (2024) Ruleset Updates

[SilentRuin]

FYI - Theme: Hearth has been fixed and updated in TEST by the current author and appears to be working again.

[Also jiminimonka - I assume they have access to my extensions - and since they turned down any desire to do simple searches on extension code to see what impact a name change has (as in do not do it or document it in detail) - its just quicker to deal with it myself. I've had experience of directly going to them with code and the "why are you doing this" or "you should do it this way if you want it future compatible" or "override these functions" (only to have them wiped out the very next release) - has me very jaded on spending time doing that. I'll stick to public questions in feed back thread as being more productive for me. Along with the hammering back for not keeping a stable set of naming when the actual UI and code is not really changing that much in 5E.]

Currently I appear to be working. But I'm waiting to see if the Character Wizard changes are stable changes - or wipe out stuff I was told to override in the past. I'm sure I'll have commentary if they are wiped yet again.

[Arghun]

Whingeing aside - Smiteworks maybe you could publish a list of the changes so SilentRuin, Damned and other actual extension/ruleset developers have a point of reference to work with.

So if something has been replaced or renamed, they don't have to hunt for it.

I believe the right solution would be to have a forum with invited persons (extension DEVs) and actually discuss things that are about to be changed (in a close discussion like a round table) and try and understand better how extension builders work.

A solution is only as good as its ecosystem. Once the ecosystem dies so does the application.

[SilentRuin]

I believe the right solution would be to have a forum with invited persons (extension DEVs) and actually discuss things that are about to be changed (in a close discussion like a round table) and try and understand better how extension builders work.

A solution is only as good as its ecosystem. Once the ecosystem dies so does the application.

I'd prefer simply keeping a stable platform that is unchanging where extensions/rulesets hook in - or at a minimum detailed docs on what names/args changes, why they changed, what replaces them now.

Another time sink of being involved in SW design would not be in anyone's interest IMHO. Except possibly for people who were interested in doing that.

I'm interested in just not being broken every single TEST release given I only use 5E and it should be super stable this many years down the road. Obviously, the decision to blend the 5E 2014 and 2024 code into one code set is yet another destabilizing factor. Though to be honest it seems every TEST release is a destablizing factor for me in 5E/CoreRPG land. I can't speak for other ruleset based extensions but mine are in constant turmoil.

[superteddy57]

As you have pointed out many times, your code is based on the design logic from many years ago. At least that is something you bring up with every update cycle as why it should work was due to the age of the design. We have mentioned over the past year, and with each update, that there is major design logic changes was being implemented. Most of the issues you have faced recently (at least with anchoring and subwindows) is due in part to that change. The standardization process has been ongoing since it was announced. Moon Wizard has been implementing it over the past year to give that standard, that others have asked for in the past. You are in that period of transition and it will be this way till all the parts have been put into place. As of right now I believe that the only things left with standardization is the character sheet.

As for the 5e changes, much of what you are seeing is a change that will be the foundation for other projects, many of which are requests from the feature request boards. I will not go into what those are here. Changing of functions is not done lightly by Moon, but when it is done, there is a purpose and I'll allow Moon to address those changes when he has returned.

If any developer runs into an issue with their code I would hope they know they can reach out to me anytime and I am more than glad to help them along. But I'm not seeing many questions being asked about how to fix things. I'm seeing more outward commentary than requests for help. I can't provide answers when it's just commentary. You might find it's a short fix if questions are asked. As evident with the couple you did ask. If you don't feel comfortable asking here, by all means reach out to me in discord and I'll try my best.

[SilentRuin]

As you have pointed out many times, your code is based on the design logic from many years ago. At least that is something you bring up with every update cycle as why it should work was due to the age of the design. We have mentioned over the past year, and with each update, that there is major design logic changes was being implemented. Most of the issues you have faced recently (at least with anchoring and subwindows) is due in part to that change. The standardization process has been ongoing since it was announced. Moon Wizard has been implementing it over the past year to give that standard, that others have asked for in the past. You are in that period of transition and it will be this way till all the parts have been put into place. As of right now I believe that the only things left with standardization is the character sheet.

As for the 5e changes, much of what you are seeing is a change that will be the foundation for other projects, many of which are requests from the feature request boards. I will not go into what those are here. Changing of functions is not done lightly by Moon, but when it is done, there is a purpose and I'll allow Moon to address those changes when he has returned.

If any developer runs into an issue with their code I would hope they know they can reach out to me anytime and I am more than glad to help them along. But I'm not seeing many questions being asked about how to fix things. I'm seeing more outward commentary than requests for help. I can't provide answers when it's just commentary. You might find it's a short fix if questions are asked. As evident with the couple you did ask. If you don't feel comfortable asking here, by all means reach out to me in discord and I'll try my best.

My code is based on things from years ago - then from more recent stuff you guys tell me to switch to - which is then broken and I'm left to find what to switch to - then broken again and... so on.

I have the distinct feeling your not reading anything I'm telling you about needlessly renaming things (contents to content where plenty of things still use the word contents) and not documenting the changes or providing legacy calls. All I hear is "we are required to do changes". Fine - do them in a safe 3rd party conscious way with minimal impact. Just using the excuse of "we are required to make changes" does not fly with me. You are required to provide new features and new functionality - I did this for decades with a mind to who was still making use of my calls and UIs and did so in a way that minimally impacted them. And when it did I told them exactly what changed, why, and what they needed to replace the old UI/functions with.

YOU don't. That's my complaint. And has not changed at all based on what you just said - except confirming that you guys simply do not see - or want to see the issues 3rd parties are having keeping things afloat release to release.

[Vass_Dts]

I'm gonna sidetrack this conversation a bit to report a graphic glitch/bug/whatever in the Test build's character sheets.

The icon 'char_left_frame.png', used in the character sheet's header plates is misplaced in many (but strangely, not all) entries like in this example.png, whereas it should look like this.png (note that both screenshots are from the same campaign, in TEST).

This affects all themes I've checked so far (Core, Core DARK, the new D&D theme, and my own theme).

[superteddy57]

Thanks for the report! I have noted it.

[rocketvaultgames]

Will new things like the following automatically choose the highest, or be left to be a manual process?

"Shove. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or you either push it 5 feet away or cause it to have the Prone condition. The DC for the saving throw equals 8 plus your Strength modifier and Proficiency Bonus. This shove is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you."

If it will be automated, i.e: pickup and drop the "Strength or Dexterity saving throw" text onto target and it picks the higher automatically, will it work for things like the bulette's deadly leap?

"If the bulette jumps at least 15 feet as part of its movement, it can then use this action to land on its feet in a space that contains one or more other creatures. Each of those creatures must succeed on a DC 16 Strength or Dexterity saving throw (target's choice) or be knocked prone and take 14 (3d6 + 4) bludgeoning damage + 14 (3d6 + 4) slashing damage. On a successful save, the creature takes only half the damage, isn't knocked prone, and is pushed 5 feet out of the bulette's space into an unoccupied space of the creature's choice. If no unoccupied space is within range, the creature instead falls prone in the bulette's space."


If it's easy, I'd love FG to auto-parse any combination of saving throws... this can help homebrew model Fortitude/Reflex/Will (or any combination of 2(+?)) scores from other editions.

I already submitted this as a feature request awhile back, but now I see the possibility of the 2024 rules requiring it, so I figured I'd ask here.

Thank you for all you do.

[Zacchaeus]

Will new things like the following automatically choose the highest, or be left to be a manual process?

"Shove. The target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (it chooses which), or you either push it 5 feet away or cause it to have the Prone condition. The DC for the saving throw equals 8 plus your Strength modifier and Proficiency Bonus. This shove is possible only if the target is no more than one size larger than you."

If it will be automated, i.e: pickup and drop the "Strength or Dexterity saving throw" text onto target and it picks the higher automatically, will it work for things like the bulette's deadly leap?

"If the bulette jumps at least 15 feet as part of its movement, it can then use this action to land on its feet in a space that contains one or more other creatures. Each of those creatures must succeed on a DC 16 Strength or Dexterity saving throw (target's choice) or be knocked prone and take 14 (3d6 + 4) bludgeoning damage + 14 (3d6 + 4) slashing damage. On a successful save, the creature takes only half the damage, isn't knocked prone, and is pushed 5 feet out of the bulette's space into an unoccupied space of the creature's choice. If no unoccupied space is within range, the creature instead falls prone in the bulette's space."


If it's easy, I'd love FG to auto-parse any combination of saving throws... this can help homebrew model Fortitude/Reflex/Will (or any combination of 2(+?)) scores from other editions.

I already submitted this as a feature request awhile back, but now I see the possibility of the 2024 rules requiring it, so I figured I'd ask here.

Thank you for all you do.

No. At least not as written. If you reword it to The target must make a DC x Strength saving throw or the target must make a DC X Dexterity saving throw then it will parse both if it is an NPC; if it's a PC then wording it in that way should create the correct effects when you drag and drop the ability into the actions tab (or you can manually create it if it can't be drag and dropped).

[rocketvaultgames]

No. At least not as written. If you reword it to The target must make a DC x Strength saving throw or the target must make a DC X Dexterity saving throw then it will parse both if it is an NPC; if it's a PC then wording it in that way should create the correct effects when you drag and drop the ability into the actions tab (or you can manually create it if it can't be drag and dropped).

Thank you for the reply. My hope was to be able to drag one single line of text that would choose the better/best save automatically on a per-target basis.