18 WIS will save vs 17 WIS

[Morenu]

OK, I feel as though I am losing it. I assume the following is correct:

• Will save with an 18 wisdom gets +4 bonus
• Will save with an 17 wisdom gets +3 bonus
• Will save with an 16 wisdom gets +3 bonus
• Will save with an 15 wisdom gets +2 bonus
  AND
• WIS:-1 effect will remove 1 point from the players wisdom score, adjusting the modifier bonus as above (18 -1=17, bonus of +4 reduces to +3)

IF I am correct there then I believe the following pictures show it as not working correctly.

Example 1 with a bunch of extensions. PC has 18 WIS, and a total WILL save of +8 from wisdom and level.
Wisdom -1 will save.png
The first save has no negative wisdom effect, (so an 18 wis) +8 works normal.
effect of -1 wis added
roll save and FG adds [EFFECTS] by the will save but no -1. so it sees wisdom -1 so assume wisdom 17 but the +4 bonus still applied.
I tried wis -2 and the [EFFECT -1] appeared for a wisdom 16 which would be correct (missed it in the screen shot).

Example 2 NO EXTENSIONS PC has 18 WIS and no other Will modifiers so Will save +4
-1 wisdom (18) will save no ext.png
Roll 1 - no WIS deduction - d20 +4 GOOD
add WIS:-1 (now wisdom of 17)
Roll 2 - WIS -1 = d20 +4 WRONG
remove -1 add WIS -2 (now wisdom of 16)
Roll 3 - WIS -2 = d20 +3 GOOD
add WIS:-1 effect for a total -3 (now wisdom of 15)
Roll 4 - WIS -3 = d20 +3 WRONG

Example 3 NO EXTENSIONS only change was to make the PC start with a 17 Wisdom so base Will save is +3
-1 wisdom (17) will save no ext.png
Roll 1 - no WIS deduction - d20 +3 GOOD
add WIS:-1 (now wisdom of 16)
Roll 2 - WIS -1 = d20 +3 GOOD
remove -1 add WIS -2 (now wisdom of 15)
Roll 3 - WIS -2 = d20 +2 GOOD

[Kelrugem]

I didn't look through all your screenshots and descriptions: But do you play PF1 or 3.5E? If PF1 (which seems to be the case given the forum), then that might be what you see. PF1 differs between permanent and temporary bonuses in the ruleset (someone might have a link to some wiki about that). That is permanent bonuses are as you expect, however, temporary bonuses (and maluses) are not directly added to the ability to check the modifier. Instead, only every even number affects the ability. Thus, for example WIS: +/- 1 doesn't do anything, but WIS: +/-2 does, WIS: +/-3 behaves like WIS: +/-2 and so on.

I think PF1 changed that system so that it may be easier for players to track their buffs while playing, but with a VTT this is not really needed anymore. (but the rules are not written for a VTT)

Does this clarify it?

[Kelrugem]

Here is a link: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-abil...bility-scores/ (under Ability Score Bonuses)

"For every two points of increase to a single ability, apply a +1 bonus to the skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability."

A subtle wording and many do not know that; you are not the first who was wondering about that

[Morenu]

Huh. I did not know that. And i am in pf1e. Also, i will say… math is math damnit. 18-1 is 17. Lol

Ok so working correctly, i just need to ignore the mathing aint mathing thing. Got it. ��

[Kelrugem]

Huh. I did not know that. And i am in pf1e. Also, i will say… math is math damnit. 18-1 is 17. Lol

Ok so working correctly, i just need to ignore the mathing aint mathing thing. Got it. 

Yeah, temporary bonuses are not really a bonus directly to the ability, it is a separate kind of bonus It is even more complicated: the first 24 hours you wear an item, its bonus counts as temporary before it turns to a typical permanent bonus

It is really just meant as a simplification at a table: Just count how many buffs you have and add a modifier per +/-2 In that way players do not have to remember the modifier bonus associated to certain ability values; at least this was the idea behind that rule, I think