Feedback Thread - D&D 5E (2024) Ruleset Updates

[superteddy57]

This thread is to provide feedback on the latest changes located in the beta Test channel. Please post any feedback/issues to this thread.

[SilentRuin]

This thread is to provide feedback on the latest changes located in the beta Test channel. Please post any feedback/issues to this thread.

Unbelievable. You guys did not even attempt to preserve extension calls and usages. You just blew away and renamed stuff as if they were not even in use. There is no way you can tell me you could not have preserved previous naming and added in new things to support the new 5E. Its code - it can be done. But no attempt was made. Another total breakage of who knows how much. I brought it up and instantly got errors across things that I KNOW could have been preserved. If any consideration of existing extension usage was taken into account. Which it was not. It was supposed to be a separate ruleset but I guess that was just tossed out the airlock for convenience? I did not try everything but OMG. I have no intention of blindly guessing my way through what changed and what is supposed to replace that code now. Tempted to just ditch my extensions at this point as no attempt what so ever is being made to preserve calls in a shared environment. Feel like changing something? Just do it. Damn the consequences to others. Tell you what - if you guys are going to just rename stuff because you can't be put out to preserve interfaces like any other shared environment for your 3rd parties - you can tell us exactly what to replace in our code so we don't have to spend multiple hours/days figuring it out on our own. If you need me to gift them let me know and YOU can spend tons of time figuring out what you changed and what needs to be changed in extensions now.

[Laerun]

Unbelievable. You guys did not even attempt to preserve extension calls and usages. You just blew away and renamed stuff as if they were not even in use. There is no way you can tell me you could not have preserved previous naming and added in new things to support the new 5E. Its code - it can be done. But no attempt was made. Another total breakage of who knows how much. I brought it up and instantly got errors across things that I KNOW could have been preserved. If any consideration of existing extension usage was taken into account. Which it was not. It was supposed to be a separate ruleset but I guess that was just tossed out the airlock for convenience? I did not try everything but OMG. I have no intention of blindly guessing my way through what changed and what is supposed to replace that code now. Tempted to just ditch my extensions at this point as no attempt what so ever is being made to preserve calls in a shared environment. Feel like changing something? Just do it. Damn the consequences to others. Tell you what - if you guys are going to just rename stuff because you can't be put out to preserve interfaces like any other shared environment for your 3rd parties - you can tell us exactly what to replace in our code so we don't have to spend multiple hours/days figuring it out on our own. If you need me to gift them let me know and YOU can spend tons of time figuring out what you changed and what needs to be changed in extensions now.

I understand your frustration. I have many new videos to redo, but I look at it as evolution. I do not think you are the only one who has to adjust to the changes. Almost anyone writing content or such will have to switch gears all over the industry...

Extensions and third party content does not set the agenda or the bar for Fantasy Grounds and Smiteworks development team, they do. We can only react. I think with the amount of energy put into this anger and the endless frustrations, you could/can have already had a good start on how to proceed from here. This is also still test, so it's that time to adapt or not.

Chasing changes and such with extensions is very disheartening at times, but it's worsened when you outright threaten to rage quit. There have been a half a dozen times when you have went out of your way to freak out and then realized you had it wrong. I do not pretend this is one of those moment, but taking a break might be helpful for now.

Testing and updating cycles are not always going to stick either, so there's that challenge too. Best of luck and do not let this stuff kill you, it's likely not worth the anger and blood pressure build up. Be good to yourself and let's see what happens, because there are likely many unforeseen changes and tweaks yet to come with this particular rule set, errata and all. There might have also been some challenges and newer things on the backend that we are not yet aware of too. We also do not know how this will work out in play yet either.

[ddavison]

Hello SilentRuin,

We are still working on this update to be ready for the release of 2024. It is taking us a lot longer to get in place than we had hoped and we had a shorter dev cycle than we would have liked for changes as significant as these. If you want to send a copy of any broken extensions to superteddy57 and to me, we can try to look at them if we have time and provide some additional insight. We can't make any promises at this point, but we will try our best to assist you.

[SilentRuin]

I understand your frustration. I have many new videos to redo, but I look at it as evolution. I do not think you are the only one who has to adjust to the changes. Almost anyone writing content or such will have to switch gears all over the industry...

Extensions and third party content does not set the agenda or the bar for Fantasy Grounds and Smiteworks development team, they do. We can only react. I think with the amount of energy put into this anger and the endless frustrations, you could/can have already had a good start on how to proceed from here. This is also still test, so it's that time to adapt or not.

Chasing changes and such with extensions is very disheartening at times, but it's worsened when you outright threaten to rage quit. There have been a half a dozen times when you have went out of your way to freak out and then realized you had it wrong. I do not pretend this is one of those moment, but taking a break might be helpful for now.

Testing and updating cycles are not always going to stick either, so there's that challenge too. Best of luck and do not let this stuff kill you, it's likely not worth the anger and blood pressure build up. Be good to yourself and let's see what happens, because there are likely many unforeseen changes and tweaks yet to come with this particular rule set, errata and all. There might have also been some challenges and newer things on the backend that we are not yet aware of too. We also do not know how this will work out in play yet either.

Ha. Rage quit I'm one of the few devs that have insured all my extensions are owned in FORGE by someone else who has written permission to take over the code if I disappear. Unlike others, I know nothing is forever

As I've still got 5E and SW5E games in progress for at least another year I'm sure I'll be forced to fix things. I just have no interest in doing it today or likely for the next week as I internally rage at the fact I have to do this every time a TEST drops out.

[SilentRuin]

Hello SilentRuin,

We are still working on this update to be ready for the release of 2024. It is taking us a lot longer to get in place than we had hoped and we had a shorter dev cycle than we would have liked for changes as significant as these. If you want to send a copy of any broken extensions to superteddy57 and to me, we can try to look at them if we have time and provide some additional insight. We can't make any promises at this point, but we will try our best to assist you.

Send me a drop box to send all my extensions and you can have them on record for when you run a test. Though I'd prefer a doc that said "this is old call you had - this is what you have to change it to - and this is what the new stuff does different from the old stuff". I assume you do this with rulesets already. I just have no patience to spend another set of days trying to guess my way past the diff of changes or wall of red that pop up in TEST every few months and try and figure out how I'm impacted. Though usually I just have to trial and error and see what is broken. Something I did in just coming up - and clicking one button in and extension. I HOPE this is an easy set of changes - but the last few TESTs I was told would just be change this to this and it was not.

A simple fix can take forever to figure out what is actually required. And that is the norm I find in SW updates.

[Laerun]

Ha. Rage quit I'm one of the few devs that have insured all my extensions are owned in FORGE by someone else who has written permission to take over the code if I disappear. Unlike others, I know nothing is forever

As I've still got 5E and SW5E games in progress for at least another year I'm sure I'll be forced to fix things. I just have no interest in doing it today or likely for the next week as I internally rage at the fact I have to do this every time a TEST drops out.

Great attitude, you've grown!

[damned]

I think the number of devs dropping out and/or not producing new code due to the constant cycle is greater than the number of new devs starting up.
The frustration and time sink is real.

[deer_buster]

Devil's Advocate: could probably do with less patronizing responses when people voice valid concerns

[rhagelstrom]

I don’t have the new book so I haven’t read the rules but any glaring deficiencies that you guys aren’t doing that devs might want to be aware of to fill in the holes? I’m sure everyone will figure them out pretty quickly and I can understand not saying it but it just makes everyone’s life easier