Hiding problem

[rocketvaultgames]

Visibility of chat messages seems to work correctly, however, on the GM side, I'm not seeing the "hidden" eye icon in chat to inform me that a message is actually hidden from the players.

Here I applied Prone twice from the "Environment" NPC.

First time with the NPC hidden in CT. Players confirmed they did not see the message.
Second time with the NPC shown in the CT. Players could see the message, but I could not tell the difference on my side.

Screenshot 2024-08-27 085956.png

[Zacchaeus]

Visibility of chat messages seems to work correctly, however, on the GM side, I'm not seeing the "hidden" eye icon in chat to inform me that a message is actually hidden from the players.

Here I applied Prone twice from the "Environment" NPC.

First time with the NPC hidden in CT. Players confirmed they did not see the message.
Second time with the NPC shown in the CT. Players could see the message, but I could not tell the difference on my side.

Screenshot 2024-08-27 085956.png

What theme are you using? And what ruleset?

Also AFAIK this extension only applies effects automatically if the effect is created on the NPC and the NPC is then added to the CT. Effects applied from another source (such as a PC, or another NPC) are not affected by this extension. (Again AFAIK - been a while since I looked at it so it may have changed).

[rocketvaultgames]

So sorry... definitely posted in the wrong place... if you want to move it, feel free...

I'm using 5e and Hearth (Magnificent Darkness), but I just confirmed this happens with new default theme and no extensions at all.

Is there a way to have the effect announcements hidden if they come from hidden actors?

[Zacchaeus]

I could move your post but where should I move it to?

As I noted above if you are talking about this extension then the effects are hidden if you check the Hide box and you create the effect in the NPC and then add the NPC to the Combat Tracker. So I'm assuming that this isn't the same extension you are using?

It may be that it is the theme you are using; but it is definitely working correctly in the default theme as you can see.

[rocketvaultgames]

I'm not sure where... House of Healing? It is not Advanced Effects that is the problem (I was wrong).

With default theme and no extensions I'm not seeing the little crossed out eye 'hidden' symbol in the chat box when dragging [EFF: Prone] from the Actions section of an NPC (Hostile Faction) in the CT onto a Friend Faction NPC regardless of if the Hostile NPC is visible in the CT.

The players only see the message if the NPC is visible.

I guess I would just like to see the crossed out eye symbol in chat, if the players aren't seeing the message. The lack of it introduces ambiguity about what messages are actually being sent to the players.

In order:
1. Environment Hidden in CT (not sent to players, but no hidden symbol shown to GM in chat)
2. Environment Shown in CT (sent to players, no hidden symbol (as expected)
3. Environment Hidden in CT (not sent to players, YES hidden symbol (as expected)) - Target immune to Prone.
4. Environment Shown in CT (sent to players, no hidden symbol (as expected) - Target immune to Prone.

Basically, I think the crossed out eye 'hidden' symbol should be shown to the GM in the first case above.

Screenshot 2024-08-27 103953.png

[Zacchaeus]

Ok, I've moved this conversation into the House of Healing.

So, in the first instance applying an effect to anything isn't hidden by default. And it doesn't matter if the actor applying the effect is visible on the CT or not; and it also doesn't matter what faction they are. Any effect applied to an actor that is visible on the CT by any other actor on the CT is visible to both the players and the DM both on the CT and, depending on what option you have set also on the token on the map. You mentioned a friendly NPC; any effect applied to a friendly NPC is the same as applying the effect to a PC. In other words the effect will always show and always be sent via chat to players because you can't make friendly actors invisible on the CT. If the recipient of the effect is not visible on the CT then applying the effect will not get broadcast to players but does get shown to the DM with the hidden eye symbol in chat.

The only method that I know of (outside of an extension) to apply an effect that is hidden from the players is to create the effect in the effect dialog and then click on the eye icon next to the effect before applying it from the effect dialog onto an actor on the CT.

[rocketvaultgames]

Ok, I've moved this conversation into the House of Healing.

So, in the first instance applying an effect to anything isn't hidden by default. And it doesn't matter if the actor applying the effect is visible on the CT or not; and it also doesn't matter what faction they are. Any effect applied to an actor that is visible on the CT by any other actor on the CT is visible to both the players and the DM both on the CT and, depending on what option you have set also on the token on the map. You mentioned a friendly NPC; any effect applied to a friendly NPC is the same as applying the effect to a PC. In other words the effect will always show and always be sent via chat to players because you can't make friendly actors invisible on the CT. If the recipient of the effect is not visible on the CT then applying the effect will not get broadcast to players but does get shown to the DM with the hidden eye symbol in chat.

The only method that I know of (outside of an extension) to apply an effect that is hidden from the players is to create the effect in the effect dialog and then click on the eye icon next to the effect before applying it from the effect dialog onto an actor on the CT.

I might not have explained this correctly...

The visibility of the effect on the actor in the CT isn't the issue.

The only issue is the chat announcement when the effect is placed.

There is no visual difference to the GM whether the players saw that announcement or not.

For (most? all?) other messages, the GM sees the 'hidden' crossed out eye symbol next to the message in chat if it is not sent to players.

When the actor the effect comes from is hidden in the CT, the players don't see the chat announcement, but on the GM side, it looks like they do.

[Zacchaeus]

My apologies, you are correct. Somewhere along the line my earlier testing did not show that.

If a hidden actor places an effect on another actor in the CT then the effect is placed on the character and is hidden from the players - not only do they not get a notification via the chat but the effects doesn't appear on the CT either. However, as you say, as far as the DM is concerned the chat doesn't indicate that the effect is hidden; however it is shown on the CT (to the DM only) in brackets indicating that it is hidden.

[rocketvaultgames]

My apologies, you are correct. Somewhere along the line my earlier testing did not show that.

If a hidden actor places an effect on another actor in the CT then the effect is placed on the character and is hidden from the players - not only do they not get a notification via the chat but the effects doesn't appear on the CT either. However, as you say, as far as the DM is concerned the chat doesn't indicate that the effect is hidden; however it is shown on the CT (to the DM only) in brackets indicating that it is hidden.

Exactly.

So the question then: Why doesn't the DM see that that message is hidden? Can this be changed to be in-line with the way other messages are presented?

It would be great to know with certainty that if there is no 'hidden' symbol in chat, the players saw it, too.

Sincere thanks for all of your replies.