Savage World Threat Rating derived stat

[LordDante123]

Hello fellow roleplayers!

I'm going crazy trying to setup a simple derived stat that did register only twice and disappeared without knowing why.

So I won't be able to implement a threat rating derived stat for players and NPCs.

But I'm not sure if most of the formula can be done automatically so I would only need to add the missing stats.

I gues I should calculate it outside of the app and manually input it for each and every sheet.

Here is the threat rating I use to have a general idea for each and every character :
{Edge Rating}+{Attack Die}+2*{Attack Bonus}+2*{Parry}+{Average Damage Die}+{Damage Bonus}+{Toughness}-{Extra}

{Edge Rating} Need to be setup manually.
{Attack Die} The max die found for the Offensive trait : Fighting, Shooting, or any of the Trait that uses Powers.
{Attack Bonus} The bonus of the trait previously found.
{Parry} Just the Parry derived stat.
{Average Damage Die}The max damage found for the special abilities without the bonus and then made the average.
{Damage Bonus} The damage bonus of the special ability previously found.
{Toughness} Just the Toughness derived stat.
{Extra} Should be 6 by default.

Thank you all for your suggestions.

LordDante123

[Mike Serfass]

Did you follow this tutorial?
How to add new Derived Stat tutorial

If so, and it's not working, post your code here so we can give you feedback.

[kronovan]

...Here is the threat rating I use to have a general idea for each and every character :
{Edge Rating}+{Attack Die}+2*{Attack Bonus}+2*{Parry}+{Average Damage Die}+{Damage Bonus}+{Toughness}-{Extra}

{Edge Rating} Need to be setup manually.
{Attack Die} The max die found for the Offensive trait : Fighting, Shooting, or any of the Trait that uses Powers.
{Attack Bonus} The bonus of the trait previously found.
{Parry} Just the Parry derived stat.
{Average Damage Die}The max damage found for the special abilities without the bonus and then made the average.
{Damage Bonus} The damage bonus of the special ability previously found.
{Toughness} Just the Toughness derived stat.
{Extra} Should be 6 by default...

Are you aware of the Combat Ratings in Savage Worlds Deluxe; page 123 of the hardcover? I ask, because you're adding quite a few more values and calculations than what it did. I found the SWD CR's to work reasonably well, with the exception that it didn't include Parry which I felt was necessary for melee-heavy (Classic Fantasy, Sword & Sorcery, Weird Wars Rome, etc) settings. So i added it for those. The SWD CR only considered points of toughness over 5, which worked because many Extras and Wild Cards have a d6 Vigor with a resulting 5 Toughness. It also only considered damage and didn't add the Fighting, Shooting or AB skill die type, which to me made sense as attack situations and rolls are very dynamic, and the TN is fixed at 4 for defense vs Throwing (SWADE Athletics-throwing) and shooting. It also divided the final CR value in half for Extras.

Nothing wrong with the way you're doing it, just wanted to point out the SWD CR because it's quite a bit simpler. If you're aware of it, disregard my comments.

[LordDante123]

Did you follow this tutorial?
How to add new Derived Stat tutorial

If so, and it's not working, post your code here so we can give you feedback.

Yes, even tried to find more information and even tried to duplicate the Ressource Counter extension with few successes.

Are you aware of the Combat Ratings in Savage Worlds Deluxe; page 123 of the hardcover? I ask, because you're adding quite a few more values and calculations than what it did. I found the SWD CR's to work reasonably well, with the exception that it didn't include Parry which I felt was necessary for melee-heavy (Classic Fantasy, Sword & Sorcery, Weird Wars Rome, etc) settings. So i added it for those. The SWD CR only considered points of toughness over 5, which worked because many Extras and Wild Cards have a d6 Vigor with a resulting 5 Toughness. It also only considered damage and didn't add the Fighting, Shooting or AB skill die type, which to me made sense as attack situations and rolls are very dynamic, and the TN is fixed at 4 for defense vs Throwing (SWADE Athletics-throwing) and shooting. It also divided the final CR value in half for Extras.

Nothing wrong with the way you're doing it, just wanted to point out the SWD CR because it's quite a bit simpler. If you're aware of it, disregard my comments.

I wasn't aware of it since I started directly on SWADE and found on the net someone that made this formula which was nicely tuned.

But I would not mind to works with the CR instead, with or without the Parry but I'm also curious with the Parry.

In the end I just need a rating to help me fine-tune the balance of the game sessions.

[Mike Serfass]

After rereading what you're after, it's not a simple derived stat. You'll need a full-out extension for this. The derived stat code can't search through abilities or discover all the skills used for powers. It looks at a trait and does simple things like addition and division.
Outside of writing an extension with formulas, you could add a blank field on character sheets that you manually input.

[Jiminimonka]

What is this Threat stat anyway?

[Mike Serfass]

A version of D&D's Challenge Rating for Savage Worlds.

[kronovan]

...I wasn't aware of it since I started directly on SWADE and found on the net someone that made this formula which was nicely tuned.

But I would not mind to works with the CR instead, with or without the Parry but I'm also curious with the Parry.

In the end I just need a rating to help me fine-tune the balance of the game sessions.

OK cool. I'll post the text and bullet points for the SWD Combat Ratings. Here it be...

"

• Start your estimate by getting a Combat Rating for each player character equal to half the maximum damage he does with his typical attack. So a fighter with a d6 Strength and a long sword (Str+d8 damage) has a Damage Rating of 7 (14/2). A wizard who typically uses the bolt power averages a standard bolt attack of 2d6, or 6 (12/2).
• Add +1 for each Combat Edge or special ability, and another +1 for each point of Toughness over 5.
• Do the same for any allies. If a character isn’t a Wild Card, his Combat Rating is halved.
• Now add all the player characters’ Combat Ratings together to find the party’s Combat Rating.
• Use the same system for the villains (counting combat special abilities as Combat Edges).

Now compare each side’s values. If the party’s Combat Rating is 50, for example, your opposition should be a little less for an easy encounter, about even for a moderate encounter, and a little more for a tough fight.
If the villains’ Combat Rating is two or more times the heroes’ total they’re likely going to learn how to retreat."

The damage forumla is I believe the same as what you're doing with your averaging. Note though that the SWD CR doesn't include dmg bonuses. Edges and Special Abilities are tricky. IIRC in most of my campaigns, I also included Power edges by just giving a +1 for each one a character had, the same way you would for combat edges. NPCs (Extras and Wild Cards) are trickier as they often have Special Abilities related to combat. But that was mostly OK if you added a +1 for each such special ability. I found doing it the way they suggest works OK for settings that mostly feature ranged combat. Whereas for melee-heay settings, I found adding in points of Parry above 2 (the default if no Fighting skill), to give a more meaningful/relevant CR. I included any Parry bonuses from gear or edges.

Anyhow...that's how SWD did it. No matter how you tinker the CR, it's always going to be an abstraction in the end.

[Edit]Mike and other folks here more savvy with extensions would know more about this...But I believe for total Edge and combat Special Abilties, you'd need to create a static stat on the character sheet and set it as a readable field. Then you'd manually enter the total combat edge (I'd personally include Power edges too) and total SAs. Then you would just read the field and include it as one of the values in the final CR calc.

If there was a way to enumerate total num of Combat Edges and SAs just from code that would be awesome. But from Mike's comments, it doesn't sound like that's possible.

[Jiminimonka]

A version of D&D's Challenge Rating for Savage Worlds.

Isn't that kinda counter to SWADE? If the NPC is too tough you run or die.....

[zarlor]

Isn't that kinda counter to SWADE? If the NPC is too tough you run or die.....

I'd kind of agree with that and I think it's the main reason why SWADE dumped what they had listed in SWD for doing that kind of thing. Beyond which the system is so easily scalable "in the moment", if an encounter seems too easy bring in some mook reinforcements and use strong tactics digging into when and where you use things like Wild Attacks and Gang Up, if it seems too tough tone down the tactics, make "morale" rolls for mooks and otherwise remind players of things like Wild Attacks and Gang Up bonuses if they are forgetting to use such things. I've found just those little tweaks to be more than enough to balance encounters in the moment, and I'm really not the most improvisational GM out there or anything.

Still some folks just feel a TON more comfortable with ratings like this so more power to you if you want them, I just personally wouldn't recommend it for SWADE.